Tuesday, January 17, 2012

What do the pros really think about Quail Hollow?

   When Golf World magazine released its player-rankings of the courses used on the PGA Tour, Quail Hollow Club was ranked 14th of the 52 courses included.

   The poll was based on anonymous responses from 81 PGA Tour players who were asked talk about what they like and don't like about various courses. Compiled by Geoff Shackelford and Craig Dolch, Quail Hollow's mini-review read this way:

   "The 'pretty' and 'solid' host to nine tour events that landed the 2017 PGA Championship 'fits your eye and is 'overrated but the best overall tournament on tour.' Another player agreed that Quail Hollow's 'hype' is 'influenced by service, conditioning and aesthetics' and 'it's not as great as the CBS drones say.'

   "The reasoning? 'So-so course on great land.' Another feels a change is in order. 'Should be a 9, actually a 6. Bring in Bill Coore/Ben Crenshaw or Gil Hanse and in six months it'll be a 9.' Players raved about the 'top-notch conditioning' but said the greens are 'too severe in spots.'

   "Said one: 'Not sure who to blame for that but I'm guessing (Tom) Fazio,' architect of changes to George Cobb's 1961 original layout. 'Jim Nantz is always saying they could host the U.S. Open the next day...not even close,' said a player who cited the 'goofy eighth hole' and the 'stupid' 17th green where 'the best players in the world are trying to miss it to the right and get it up and down.'

   "And 2017 is already in their sights: 'Can't believe the PGA is going there in August.'"

   No great surprises there. The eighth and 17th holes aren't popular with many players, members included, and both are likely to look different by the time the PGA Championship is played there.

   But when you consider the list of Wells Fargo Championship winners -- from Vijay Singh to Tiger Woods to Rory McIlroy -- the pedigree of champions speaks to the quality of the course.

   Every course takes its shots, even top-ranked Augusta National which drew tons of praise but was also criticized for its fairway bunkers being too deep and, according to one player's description, "the course is too gimmicky."

  

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

I glanced at the article in my Golf World I just received. I think an improvement to this would be for the golfers whose comments were used to have their scoring average, best score, and worst score be listed for each course. Most critiques (both good and bad) that courses receive are based on how someone plays the course.

Anonymous said...

I play there on occasion, and I've always thought the greens are too tricked up. You can add the greens at #'s 7, 12 and perhaps 4 and 15. Never been a big fan of Fazio's greens in general.

Not many know, but #6 use to be a par 3, #7 was a par 4, #8 was a par 3, and #9 was a par 5 when I played there growing up.

It is a great course thats very playable, but the greens need some toning down, I agree.

Anonymous said...

Yikes! Maybe they should move the Wells Fargo tournament to Carmel Country Club's new south course in 2017 when Quail Hollow has its hands full with the PGA.

Anonymous said...

Mr. Cobb designed the 17th to be played from the left side of the16th green. It is obvious, playing from the current location, that the 17th green is not designed to receive a shot from that angle. Just move the teeing area back where it belongs and the problem goes away. The fake creek on 18 is another Fazio screw-up.

Anonymous said...

I would hope that the players would be able to take score out of the equation when talking about the quality if a design, but then again, a lit of pros could care less about it.

With regards to Carmel South, that along with other courses are being discussed. While the new holes there are an improvement, those would still be average holes at Quail or Charlotte CC. Then you have to take into account that the old holes that are still there aren't very good. 8 is still a terrible hole, 11 is a pretty bad hole, 16 is a borderline bad hole, and the pros would hate 15 because it gives them 0 options. What Carmel has going for it is they have more than enough space. Depending on how the Chiquita does at Longview could put that course in play, assuming it doesn't go bankrupt. Charlotte CC would be the most logical course from a golf point of view. Quail would have to risk being overshadowed though, which is something they aren't apt to do. A big USGA event won't happen here for that reason.

Anonymous said...

PGA Tour players are collectively the biggest bunch of bitch-n-moan primadonnas in pro sports.

Anonymous said...

It's true. A bunch of spoiled children of top 1%'ers growing up in a pampered country club environment for the most part. Very few of them have ever done a day's real work in their lives.

John Feinstein calls the PGA tour the most Republican crew in pro sports by a wide margin. Davis Love III, much praised Ryder Cup Captain, didn't want to go to the White House for one Ryder Cup appearance because Bill Clinton, a hated Democrat, was president. There are many stories like that. I have very little respect for the lot of 'em.

Anonymous said...

3:51

#6 was a par four. it is now a par 3.

Anonymous said...

Anon: 4:35. Don't flatter yourself with the thought that Quail would be overshadowed by CCC. Charlotte was a GREAT course 30 years ago. It was as good as any back then but the countless redesigns have stolen all the courses charm. The last time I was in Charlotte I played a course that may have been the purest restoration I will ever play. It was the old Carolina Golf Club. If they had the space it would be a wonderful tournament site because it had that "old classic" feel. Maybe the Wells Fargo could use the parking at Quail, the spectacular clubhouse at Charlotte and the course at Carolina!

Anonymous said...

Other than soccer players, football player, baseball players, basketball players, tennis players, and race car drivers...

Anonymous said...

The CBS hype machine says every week that they are at one of the best courses on the tour. Granted, none of them suck, but I think QH is just above average. I call it Augusta Jr. The property is awesome and much like Augusta in that it is a great place to walk around and watch great golfers.

However....1 is fair, 2 is good, 3 is really good, 4 is fair, 5 is good, 6 is ok, 7 is good, 8 sucks, 9 is too long, 10 is good, 11 is good, 12 is appropriate, 13 is good, 14 is great, 15 is great, 16 is tough, 17 is ridiculous and 18 is phony.

Add that up and it is an above average PGA tour course. However, everything else there is out of this world. I could spend all day at the short game practice area.

Anonymous said...

Boo hoo. The players that cried about the greens, and about the 8th and 17th holes...are the one's slamming their Mercedes trunks on Friday!

Anonymous said...

7:01

Have you played Charlotte since the last redo? Tremendous improvement. I think it has charm now and has fixed everything Jones and Silva screwed up to begin with. And, no I'm not a member there so I'm not trying to flatter myself or anybody else. Carolina is my second favorite course in Charlotte. #3 is the hardest par 3 in town. The problem there is there is a lack of variety on some of the holes. #5 is basically the same hole as 15. 6 is very similar to 17. 16 isn't a great hole either. Charlotte CC may not have as much charm as Carolina, but what does in this state other than maybe Linville GC, but it is a much better golf course than Quail.

J said...

I agree that there is no way the players can separate their scores from the discussions of the courses. Isn't it interesting that a lot of them complain about QH but the vast majority of the best wouldn't miss the Wells Fargo for anything?

However, there is some merit to some of the criticism. That 17th is downright stupid. Something has to be done about it. The 8th needs some help too.

Ron Green Jr makes a good point about the list of winners - mostly guys who have won majors. It amazes me to this day how total scrub Joey Sindelar managed to win it.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like they loved the tournament (and all that goes with it) and liked the course. That will keep the best in the world coming back, no matter how tough the greens are, or how unfair 17 is. Good enough for me.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:34. I have played Charlotte a few times in the last couple years and I still miss the old course. The greens made my last round a lag-fest. It is odd because the course used to challenge you to hit creative shots, now, not so much. You feel like your being dictated too by the course. You are right about 3 and 16 at CGC. 3 is just a bear, and there is really nothing to it. Just hit a 200 yard shot....big whoop! But it is the hardest 200 yard shot you will face. 16 needs dynamite. Green is situated the wrong way. A lot like 17 at Quail from the tournament tees.

Anonymous said...

Shows you the ignorance of Golf World the Quail Hollow Tournament has had 4 US Open winners and a PGA Champion in the last seven. Not to mention the runners up including 2 Masters Champions plus another US Open Winner and a PGA Champion. How much better can it get???